"If you want people to stop cramming it down your throat, then don't put it in your mouth in the first place."
Fotios
7/11/09 8:49 p.m.
http://tinyurl.com/nkbnt7
Fotios
7/11/09 8:49 p.m.
http://tinyurl.com/nkbnt7
VH July 11, 2009 10:29PM PST
I love that quote, Ajai.
So, did you like the movie? From the writeup it looks offensive...maybe that is the point for seeing it?
I don't know, I find Sacha Baron Cohen over the top...at least I thought Borat was, although I laughed plenty.
So, did you like the movie? From the writeup it looks offensive...maybe that is the point for seeing it?
I don't know, I find Sacha Baron Cohen over the top...at least I thought Borat was, although I laughed plenty.
Ajai July 12, 2009 12:00AM PST
I'm glad you asked VH,
I honestly thought it was better than Borat.
The film mines plenty of humor out of the idea of 'gay panic,' and it makes one extremely uncomfortable. The mixture of reality and satire, is also uncomfortable. (To be fair, one scene gave me straight up 'STRAIGHT PANIC').
As to GLAADs protestations, the Anti-defamation league also protested Borat. I read a good essay once, about how we cannot reject certain Jewish characters (say Shylock) because it is bad for the Jews. Borat is a sympathetic anti-semite which is even more offensive, but Cohen the actor is Jewish (but not Gay), yet Bruno is very Gay, if not always sympathetic. I cannot reject Bruno because someone says it is bad for the Gays. Like Borat, I see him as a tool designed to expose the bigotry of others.
The film is sexually explicit, and not in the sweet MILK way, but intensely so. The fact that it got an R rating is astonishing. Truly outrageous. But isn't that how some people see us? Are we not stripped of all identity but sexual in the minds of certain others? Don't they picture a mad caricature fighting with sex toys? This film exposes that.
It is brilliant.
Oh yes, when he adopts a child and takes it on the show, I was uncomfortable. Knowing many wonderful Gay parents I was a little frightened of how this could be perceived. (To be fair, one scene exposes some REALLY AWEFUL heterosexual parents.)
The thing with Ron Paul, and what he says, was very uncomfortable.
These things DO offend me to be honest. I am thankful to see it in front of me, rather than boiling underneath, on the shadow side where we can't talk about things.
The film could be seen as =bigoted and superficial, or as lampooning bigotry and superficiality...and I tend to see the latter. The last bit is nothing short of genius. A bold artistic and political achievement that I still can't stop thinking about, as it figuratively shoves something down a very deserving throat.
Though I laughed often and hard, it was nervous laughter. I enjoy that sort of thing. (I also like Woody Allen's latest, though it's tame by comparison.)
Unlike the recent Pride parade and festival in Corvallis the film Bruno it is definitely for adults only (and probably only open-minded ones at that.)
I honestly thought it was better than Borat.
The film mines plenty of humor out of the idea of 'gay panic,' and it makes one extremely uncomfortable. The mixture of reality and satire, is also uncomfortable. (To be fair, one scene gave me straight up 'STRAIGHT PANIC').
As to GLAADs protestations, the Anti-defamation league also protested Borat. I read a good essay once, about how we cannot reject certain Jewish characters (say Shylock) because it is bad for the Jews. Borat is a sympathetic anti-semite which is even more offensive, but Cohen the actor is Jewish (but not Gay), yet Bruno is very Gay, if not always sympathetic. I cannot reject Bruno because someone says it is bad for the Gays. Like Borat, I see him as a tool designed to expose the bigotry of others.
The film is sexually explicit, and not in the sweet MILK way, but intensely so. The fact that it got an R rating is astonishing. Truly outrageous. But isn't that how some people see us? Are we not stripped of all identity but sexual in the minds of certain others? Don't they picture a mad caricature fighting with sex toys? This film exposes that.
It is brilliant.
Oh yes, when he adopts a child and takes it on the show, I was uncomfortable. Knowing many wonderful Gay parents I was a little frightened of how this could be perceived. (To be fair, one scene exposes some REALLY AWEFUL heterosexual parents.)
The thing with Ron Paul, and what he says, was very uncomfortable.
These things DO offend me to be honest. I am thankful to see it in front of me, rather than boiling underneath, on the shadow side where we can't talk about things.
The film could be seen as =bigoted and superficial, or as lampooning bigotry and superficiality...and I tend to see the latter. The last bit is nothing short of genius. A bold artistic and political achievement that I still can't stop thinking about, as it figuratively shoves something down a very deserving throat.
Though I laughed often and hard, it was nervous laughter. I enjoy that sort of thing. (I also like Woody Allen's latest, though it's tame by comparison.)
Unlike the recent Pride parade and festival in Corvallis the film Bruno it is definitely for adults only (and probably only open-minded ones at that.)
Ajai July 12, 2009 12:04AM PST
Just to clarify, while I am astonished by the R rating, I am not displeased.
Ajai July 12, 2009 12:12AM PST
Not to say if it's not your thing, you are not open-minded. It is more over-the-top than Borat.
corvallisoreugene July 12, 2009 2:44AM PST
Wow Ajai, you should be a movie reviewer. Move over Michael Medved...
Ajai July 12, 2009 10:05AM PST
Thanks COE, I've read Ebert since I could read. I'd like to make movies someday.
VH July 12, 2009 10:20AM PST
Ajai, thanks for the perspective on Bruno. I am intrigued and will watch it. I totally get what you are saying about Sacha Baron Cohen being Jewish and so being an effective person to lampoon antisemitism. But some of the lampooning was what was over the top. The nude wrestling scene with the assistant comes to mind. After 5 minutes of that it was just plain stupid.
I'm assuming you are talking about Vicky Christina Barcelona. Yes, that was pretty good. I liked the narrative style of the movie and I liked the way it portrayed relationships as non-traditional, as relationships in real life ARE non-traditional. However, there was one aspect that I really didn't like: Here you had three woman who were so in love with one guy that they could care less about his lack of commitment toward them. I get the free-will concept, but the portrayal is highly unrealistic. I saw it as more of a Woody Allen self-fantasy than as art imitating life.
It's funny, I have a total bias against Allen because of his personal life. When I rented the movie to watch it, I didn't know he was the director, just knew the title from friends' recommendations. Once I saw his name in the credits the whole movie was colored differently for me.
I'm assuming you are talking about Vicky Christina Barcelona. Yes, that was pretty good. I liked the narrative style of the movie and I liked the way it portrayed relationships as non-traditional, as relationships in real life ARE non-traditional. However, there was one aspect that I really didn't like: Here you had three woman who were so in love with one guy that they could care less about his lack of commitment toward them. I get the free-will concept, but the portrayal is highly unrealistic. I saw it as more of a Woody Allen self-fantasy than as art imitating life.
It's funny, I have a total bias against Allen because of his personal life. When I rented the movie to watch it, I didn't know he was the director, just knew the title from friends' recommendations. Once I saw his name in the credits the whole movie was colored differently for me.
VH July 12, 2009 10:23AM PST
"But isn't that how some people see us? Are we not stripped of all identity but sexual in the minds of certain others? Don't they picture a mad caricature fighting with sex toys?"
Indeed. Sad commentary.
Indeed. Sad commentary.
Ajai July 12, 2009 10:49AM PST
Hi VH,
Actually I was talking about the very latest Woody Allen film, WHATEVER WORKS. Its playing at our local art-house theater right now, (can I name it GT, or is that advertising a business?)
If you thought VICKY CHRISTINA BARCELONA was self-projected fantasy, you won't like this one. It involves Larry David as a suicidal misanthropic genius who becomes involved with a much younger, naive southern woman.
This is insulting, like My Fair Lady, but before it gets too Pygmalion other family members and characters show up revealing unexpected twists in all of the characters.
If you don't like Woody Allen, you won't like it, but it involves three things that I am a sucker for: philosophical rambling, unapologetic romanticism, and unrestrained social liberalism. It also has New York City, Gershwin, and mean-spirited acerbic humor, so I'm sold, but yes, I can see how others will detest it.
A pleasant diversion for me, but wow BRUNO, that one really blew my mind.
Actually I was talking about the very latest Woody Allen film, WHATEVER WORKS. Its playing at our local art-house theater right now, (can I name it GT, or is that advertising a business?)
If you thought VICKY CHRISTINA BARCELONA was self-projected fantasy, you won't like this one. It involves Larry David as a suicidal misanthropic genius who becomes involved with a much younger, naive southern woman.
This is insulting, like My Fair Lady, but before it gets too Pygmalion other family members and characters show up revealing unexpected twists in all of the characters.
If you don't like Woody Allen, you won't like it, but it involves three things that I am a sucker for: philosophical rambling, unapologetic romanticism, and unrestrained social liberalism. It also has New York City, Gershwin, and mean-spirited acerbic humor, so I'm sold, but yes, I can see how others will detest it.
A pleasant diversion for me, but wow BRUNO, that one really blew my mind.
VH July 12, 2009 11:35AM PST
"philosophical rambling, unapologetic romanticism, and unrestrained social liberalism. It also has New York City, Gershwin, and mean-spirited acerbic humor, so I'm sold..."
Yes, I certainly can appreciate these themes...given another director and I might be sold too. Just my bias.
I was thinking how much I love the movie Frida, which shares some of those themes, plus the tragic component, although in a more realistic fashion...of course it was about real people, so there you have it. Toss in the exotic beauty of Salma Hayek and, well, I think I'll go rent it again.
Oh, and I'll check out Bruno again. I'll have to write you on your page and tell you what I think. Thanks!
Yes, I certainly can appreciate these themes...given another director and I might be sold too. Just my bias.
I was thinking how much I love the movie Frida, which shares some of those themes, plus the tragic component, although in a more realistic fashion...of course it was about real people, so there you have it. Toss in the exotic beauty of Salma Hayek and, well, I think I'll go rent it again.
Oh, and I'll check out Bruno again. I'll have to write you on your page and tell you what I think. Thanks!
corvallisoreugene July 12, 2009 10:49PM PST
I love the "make you uncomfortable" humor. In its purest form this type of comedy satirizes the differences we all have and makes you think twice about how you feel, or think about these "differences". We should remember Cohen's start on HBO that showcased the three personalities: Ali G, Bruno, and Borat. Borat was, (I think), genius. So I can't wait to see Bruno. I was disappointed with Ali G on the big screen. I like the character but the movie version was very unfunny. It had some funny moments but as a whole not so good. It was also a departure from the documentary feel to the other two movies. Personal life aside, I never really got Woody Allen. His delivery bugs me. I love Bob Newhart, (Similar delivery) but Woody I just don't get!
Posted by: Ajai on July 13, 2009 1:05PM EST
ReplyDeleteFrida was amazing. I love films about real people, and real things. It's more interesting then watching people kill each other. (Now if their real people killing each other....who knows?)
But I am still giggling because of something Bruno said about the lovely Selma Hayek.
Love or ate, or like or dislike Cohen, one has to admit: here is a guy willing to get killed to entertain us.
Posted by Vicky: on July 13, 2009 2:05PM EST
ReplyDeleteHey, you did it! Cool.
"But I am still giggling because of something Bruno said about the lovely Selma Hayek."
OK, now I'm really intrigued.
Posted by Vicky: on July 13, 2009 2:27PM EST
ReplyDeleteOh, and as for Woody Allen movies, I do like Sleeper. It's just such silly fun, so dated, and out there!
Posted by Vicky: on July 13, 2009 2:30PM EST
"Now if their real people killing each other....who knows?"
You mean like Valkyrie? I actually like such movies because I probably wouldn't read about that topic in a book and I was glad to learn of the resistance against Hitler.
Posted by: corvallisoreugene on July 14, 2009 12:55AM EST
ReplyDeleteHave I found the right place? I think I have... What are we talking about???
Posted by: Ajai on July 14, 2009 1:04AM EST
http://tinyurl.com/kozd8u
Posted by: Ajai on July 14, 2009 1:06AM EST
Yeah, it works!!!! Sorry, Doestoevky moment.
Posted by: on July 14, 2009 4:59PM EST
ReplyDeleteI'll have to watch your link when I'm, well, not at work.
Oh, and I think the time stamp on the MVV is way off, I'll check it on this post.
Posted by: on July 14, 2009 5:00PM EST
Oh, I just noticed it says Eastern Standard Time, my bad.
Posted by: on July 14, 2009 5:02PM EST
"What are we talking about???"
Go back to the top of the comments, COE. We're ending with a Woody Allen movie, which I've never seen, but may after reviewing Ajai's link.
I just love to get movie recommendations!
Posted by: on July 14, 2009 5:03PM EST
I imagine you've seen Harold and Maude, Ajai. One of my absolute favorites! The dark humor, the romance, oh! and the music!!
Last post was Vicky.
ReplyDeletePosted by: Ajai on July 14, 2009 7:23PM EST
Yes, of course, one of my favorites. So life-affirming, and anti-establishment, good era there in the 70s. I think The Graduate started that trend, another classic.
Posted by Vicky: on July 20, 2009 10:47PM EST
ReplyDeleteBruno…the magnificent?
I’ll begin and end with a couple of comments on Sasha Baron Cohen. My opening comment is that the man has balls, if I might use the phrase. I wonder if he hauls around a security team to keep himself from being killed!
As Ajai said, I found myself in side-splitting laughter over some of the outrageous scenes: a talking penus, a séance scene where Bruno performs graphic sexual acts on a dead member of Milii Vanilli, and the utter air-headedness of Bruno who would strip dance for Ron Paul. But, as Ajai said, I found that laughter nervous laughter, especially when I stepped back from the movie and realized the people in the theater seemed to be getting such a kick out of the caricature of a flamboyantly homosexual man.
At least there were other non-homosexual caricatures in the movie. The dominatrix at the swinger’s party was extreme in both physical features and behavior (and this movie is rated R, and they mean it!). Straight Dave was a complete slam of the macho, male homophobe and I was impressed at how Baron Cohen drew out the worst of the people in the audience at the Straight Dave show. If there was any merit to the movie as a way to fight against the animalistic anger of the homophobe, that scene exposes just how out of control their mob mentality can be.
But what is the point of this movie? Is it really to convert the homophobe by exposing the fact that they are idiots if they think that Bruno represents the majority homosexual men? I saw periods of this exposure with the leaders of the ex-gay ministries in Alabama, the karate instructor who answered Bruno’s question of how he would recognize a gay man as ‘they will be really nice to you’, and again, the screaming maniacs who went ballistic at the Straight Dave show, when Bruno not only embraces his most recent lover who outs Dave, but also gets sexual with him on stage.
These messages seemed to fade to background against the shock-value of the Bruno character. From Bruno’s promiscuous and hedonistic view of sex to him trading an African baby for an ipod and shipping it back to America in a box, these tactics were pure entertainment. And entertaining it was.
Perhaps it is necessary to have such a high entertainment value to get that background message through, but I have to wonder whether that message is getting through to those who need it the most or if it is simply preaching to the choir.
The end of the movie and the music video seemed random to me, although I enjoyed seeing Bono, since I simply adore him, along with Slash, Sting, Elton John and Snoop Dog.
All in all, I would give this movie a mixed review, a thumbs up and a thumbs down. Oh, and that closing comment about Sasha? He is ripped!
Posted by: Ajai on July 21, 2009 5:13PM EST
ReplyDeleteI knew you'd laugh!
Alot of the humor is scatological, which ultimately fits perfectly with the obsessions and taboos this film was satirizing.
In this way, I think the film does the opposite of what GLAAD says it does. GLAAD frets this film raises 'discomfort,' toward the Gay community. However, those who have discomfort regarding homosexuality will already be discomforted by the scatological humor. Those who are comfortable with scatological humor can make the logical leap to be comfortable with homosexuality. The target audience will be lulled by humor into acceptance of what has previously been unexplored territory.
There is a great column in Slate magazine about the films brilliant, 'Gay offense.'
http://www.slate.com/id/2222553/
People predisposed to dislike Gay people will not sit through this, so I reject GLAADs claims. However, this means you are correct, the film will be mostly preaching to the choir.
However this is the most mainstream treatment of Gay subject matter I have ever seen. And I am not sure how any film can completely eradicate homophobia, that sounds like a pretty tall order.
I viewed this film again, and I was struck by how subtle the humor is, once the shock value wears off. In this way I consider it more sophisticated than...say, a Judd Apatow film.
I think the last scene fits, given the movie was really about a quest to be a 'world celebrity,' this theme is satirized well, though it gets overshadowed by the Gay/Phobic stuff. And Bono sings "Everybody drop your guns and just make love forever." One good line of many.
On one last note, I admired the film for confronting the Black - Gay cultural divide, though not particularly sensitively. It needed to be addressed. We know it, the Down low culture is dangerous...and the Gay community can be racist. Caught in the crossfire are MANY, MANY African-American homosexuals. We should find unity in the values of liberty, and social justice. I know Bruno doesn't go all the way there, but it's a start.
I hope this movie will seem VERY dated in a few years, I'll still love it.
The Independent: Stop the Bruno Bashing
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/ldo9k2